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Stepper motor: amount of steps and voltage requirements

LeonardCaspari's picture
Posted in

Hi guys,

first of all I wanna thank you for putting together this site and trying to build a community that operates under a non-prfotit, open source spirit.

I'm currently planing on extending my Glidetrack with a motion control system for timelapse photography based on Arduino.

In my research on stepper motors I came across several motors, all with different voltage requirements and different amount of steps. So, I'm curious about your reasons for choosing the 17YPG Stepper Motor with Planetary Gearboxes.

Are 200 steps actually necessary for timelapses? I looked at a motor with 48 steps and estimated that one step would move the carriage approximately 2,2mm. Shouldn't that be enough for almost any timelapse? (Assuming you are not doing macro timelapse or something like that.)

Also most of the motors seem to require more than 12V. I understand that the Arduino board can supply 5V via USB and up to 12V when given an external power supply.
Would it be difficult/possible to supply the motor with more than 12V?
In using a stronger motor you would be capable of using your slider on a vertical level as well, which seems like an interesting enhancement to me.

I'm also curious about the 'Zero Backlash Miniature Slit Type Flexible Coupling'. I sort of have an understand of what it's doing, but could someone perhaps clarify it for my? Would the dolly/slider work without as well?

I know, a lot of questions at once, but I hope you might be able to provide some feedback, comments or insights on that matter.

Best wishes.

2.2mm will only be effective

2.2mm will only be effective for wide- to normal-angle lenses. Using anything longer will result in very fast movement (i.e. limit your speed options). Also, I presume you're calculating 2.2mm based off of final gear travel? Don't forget, the calculations for travel for _that specific motor_ includes the gear-down divider. Without a gearbox, you're talking 1/200th your final drive ratio.

An additional thought - your _minimum_ movement would be 2.2mm. Consider ramping -- do you want to ramp into your max speed movement? If your max speed movement is 6.6mm, that leaves you only three steps between minimum and maximum speed. So, if you're trying to do a smooth ramp (as in ramping into the motion in the final output video), you'll need to choose a max speed many times your step rate to do a smooth transition into the full-speed. That may be way too fast for your output video. I generally prefer more resolution (smaller step amount) to leave flexibility for ramping at any reasonable speed -- including very slow.

The 17YPG is a preference due to the ease of use (only final drive gear needed), high torque, and low power consumption due to the gearing.

48 steps per rev though? This is pretty uncommon for high-torque motors. 200 steps/rev (1.8') is the most common and some places make 400 step/rev (0.9'). I don't see what you save, unless you're talking those cheap round steppers that they sell for a few bucks at a lot of resale outlets. Those aren't worth a penny in a system like this. They are less reliable, have less torque per milliamp consumed (generally speaking), and have lower life-spans than the square high-torque steppers which are highly common. (Now, if you're talking some monstrous industrial stepper, you probably don't need that either.)

Where are you looking at motors? When you say "most motors seem to require more than 12V" that doesn't jive with my experience, which has been that most motors are badge-rated at only a few volts, and some are rated higher. Of course, some specific vendors may cater to a particular usage, which results in them rating towards systems they intend for them to be used in. Any stepper can be run at a higher voltage than its badge rate. Running motors at a higher voltage is done to increase velocity (rate at which the motor comes up to speed) and achieve a higher max speed (IPM or MPM in CNC nomenclature) while retaining torque. Generally speaking, unless you're moving dozens of lbs and trying to frame-sync with a Phantom, you won't need those speeds or velocities. There are plenty of motors whose badge are rated at 12V or higher, but they are generally going to be overkill for most applications. Don't look for a badge rating >= 12V, look for low current consumption and a low voltage (more headroom to drive it at a higher voltage) - with a higher torque value. Often, one can get much better performance out of a motor that doesn't seem as "powerful" as another.

The motor and the arduino should, effectively, always have separate supplies. Only GND is shared between the driver and the arduino. You can lead them both off of the same battery when running 12V (or lower).

!c

Hi Church, thanks for the

LeonardCaspari's picture

Hi Church, thanks for the feedback.

I have to correct my statement, the 2,2mm per step were on a 24-steps-per-rotation-motor. At least that's what my quick test showed.
I tested the motor since I had it at hand. It was the following.

http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/NDM2OTg2OTk-/Motoren/Schrittmotoren/Schrittmotor_IBM_6328861.html

But I get now why you would need the 200 steps. Ramping definitely comes in handy.

I assume this one doesn't enough torque to pull the carriage, right?

http://cgi.ebay.de/NEMA-17-Stepper-Motor-62oz-in-1-68A-CNC-42BYGH47-401A-/300403179640?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item45f16cc078#ht_1166wt_913

Just wondering what the difference might be, since it uses the same Nema 17 motor.

Again, thanks for helping out.

Leo

Hi Leo, sorry for the edits

Hi Leo, sorry for the edits as I'm going along - I realized I was running late for a meeting and hit send before proof-reading *grin*.

The NEMA sizes just refer to the mounting hole orientation, and the distance between each hole. It's just so you can swap two motors of the same NEMA size. Generally speaking, larger NEMA sizes can result in greater torque, as there's more room to wrap wire in the shell, but that's not always true. =)

At 30 oz/in of torque, that would result in less than 2lbs of torque if it were driving a 2" diameter pulley. Not likely to be effective for your needs. Without a gear chain, or a _very large_ pulley, you'll want to hit a torque rating at least 1.5x-2x your actual load weight. So, if you're pushing a 10lb cart, and you have a 2" pulley (which results in a 1" lever executing the torque), you'd want at least 240-320 oz/in torque motor.

Edit: I read the wrong motor, it's 62 oz/in, which results in about 4lbs of torque w/ a 2" pulley. Still likely to be too low.

You can do gear reduction, which will increase the torque and resolution, however. That's why we like the one we reference in the dolly design, it has a fairly high gear reduction, so uses very little energy to achieve lots of torque.

!c

Thanks again for

LeonardCaspari's picture

Thanks again for clarifying.
This is a whole new area to me, so I really appreciate the insights.

Based on the feedback I suppose it's the best idea to use the same stepper motor as the one you use in your designs. Or do you know any alternative that you might recommend?
Anaheim Manufacturer seems to be the only manufacturer of that exact model.

Also, I couldn't find any details on shipping costs. How much did you pay for your order and what do you reckon the costs for shipping to Europe might be?

Leo

The one issue with those gear

The one issue with those gear motors from Anaheim, is that they aren't always in-stock. That's the major bummer, as it can cause a wait of several weeks. Conversely though - that's about the least expensive you're going to find a stepper motor + gearbox combination with that reduction ratio.

Shipping will probably be pricey, but not that bad as its a small box. =)

For the ones we got for that prototype, we paid an extra $70 to rush the order (two weeks vs. eight for out-of-stock) and then the price listed, I think it was around $65-80 IIRC for the motor+gear combo. Shipping was pretty cheap to CONUS, < $10.

These guys are in the UK, and they have a 42:1 planetary head for a NEMA 23 frame size for 100 lbs: http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1036&products_id=60&osCsid=7528d1f44bf1175a2a543b42802a16cd - but the backlash is pretty tough on that one.

Additionally, here's a worm gearbox, sourced in the UK: http://www.ondrives.com/gearboxes-reducers-wormwheel-gearbox-pf20nm-nema-17.html

But, at those prices, shipping might not seem so bad =)

It's worth noting, if you got the 100:1 gearbox listed above, that would make the 62 oz/in motor a 6200 oz/in output! And give you resolution of 2,000 steps/revolution. It would force slower movements, but excellent power. Just have to make sure the shaft will fit.

!c

So, I've been going through

LeonardCaspari's picture

So, I've been going through alternatives for motors and other parts and it seems to be the best idea to mainly stick to the parts you've been using to avoid complications. I'll also built some custom parts so it will fit with my slider.

Concerning your designs I've got three questions left (for now). :-)

Fist, what members are you using at the end of the dolly? (Those black elements that run through the timing belt pulleys). They don't seem to be listed in your designs.

Also, what sizes do they have? The bore of the timing belt pulley is 10mm while the flexible coupling is listed with an 8mm bore.

And last, how do they fit the ball bearings? Is there a trick to connecting the two parts? Or are they simply connected by pressure?

As you can see, I have no experience in engineering whatsoever ;-)

Best wishes,

Leo

The parts at the end of the

milapse's picture

The parts at the end of the prototype dolly v1 are 8020.net part number 8580 with two custom holes for the t-nut and one to receive the flanged roller bearings. The 'black parts' are shafts manufactured by mitsumi (note the mitsumi spec page 6 of the PDF). They are not one single size but rather various stepped diameters based again on that mitsumi spec.

Ah, there they are. Thanks

LeonardCaspari's picture

Ah, there they are. Thanks again.

Anaheim sent me a reply that

LeonardCaspari's picture

Anaheim sent me a reply that they only sell the stepper motors in a quantity of 10 units. Also, the delivery time is 13-16 weeks...

So the hunt for a suitable motor is on once more.

Which of these motors would you say is suitable for my needs?

http://www.ondrives.com/gearboxes-reducers-wormwheel-gearbox-pf20nm-nema-17.html

Is the Low Backlash option a must?

Leonard, 15:1 or 20:1 will be

Leonard,

15:1 or 20:1 will be sufficient. You can compensate for backlash in the OMTLE, so it's not required to pay twice as much for the low-backlash option.

!c